Curse

ac1inferno · Jan 23, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Remove the .75 aftercast from Shadow Steps and instead add a "All your non-dagger attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds" like with [[Wastrel's Collapse]. Shadow Steps stay on Assassins and not on Warriors and Dervishes. Good Idea? Yes? No? Maybe?

snaek · Jan 23, 2009, 05:14 AM // 05:14

this already has been discussed to death...
but yesh, i would like to see the aftercast removed
(at least on all elite shadowsteps...aod especially)

MirkoTeran · Jan 23, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Remove all Shadow Stepping skills would probably be better idea.

newbie_of_doom · Jan 23, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Remove all Shadow Stepping skills would probably be better idea.

Disagree. Shadowsteps now have no spike potency (e.g. the dervspike before) but are still good for tactical play.

jonnieboi05 · Jan 23, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Remove all Shadow Stepping skills would probably be better idea.

only one thing to say to this: lol

dasmitchies · Jan 23, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

/signed these were nerfed due to warrior / dervish abuse. Sin attack chains are longer to recharge and dont really need the nerf. Iron Palm would be useless after shadow step as well, as martha stewart would say, this is a good thing.

Massive Impulsa · Jan 23, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

What about disabling ALL Non Assassin skills?

Tyla · Jan 23, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

only one thing to say to this: lol

Actually, Shadowstepping is either broken or broken. Delete that bitch.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jan 23, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

/signed these were nerfed due to warrior / dervish abuse. Sin attack chains are longer to recharge and dont really need the nerf. Iron Palm would be useless after shadow step as well, as martha stewart would say, this is a good thing.

i assume you mean [[palm strike].
with the change that OP suggests palm strike would not be disabled after the shadowstep. "non-dagger attack skill" means all attack skills which are not dagger attacks. palm strike is not in this category.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 24, 2009, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Why shouldn't there be a downside to Shadowstepping? All things have to be balanced somehow. By your argument, we should also remove the "takes double damage" aspect off of Frenzy. To be fair, we could disable Warrior attack skills for a short amount of time after Frenzy was triggered...

BUT, that would be grossly imbalanced...

It's simple, really: if a Sin's attack skills are disabled, it doesn't matter except for those few seconds of disabled time; as soon as the timer is up, they can fire off their chain. If a Warrior's attack skills are disabled, he/she gains no Adrenaline FOR THE DISABLED SKILLS, so even after the timer is up, they have to build full Adrenaline to fire off their chain.

It's not even close to balanced.

As far as your argument for "Sin attack chains take longer to recharge", they also do more armor-ignoring damage for frontloading, and with the energy gain from Critical Strikes, as well as a Zealous weapon, you honestly think they'd give Assassins insta-recharge skills? No way. Which is why they have the recharges that they do.

Sins don't belong in GW, no more than Samurai or Ninja, or CatNinjaPirates or Dino from the Flintstones. Let's remove Sins, then Shadowsteps won't be a problem? Yes? Yes.

Thank you.

newbie_of_doom · Jan 28, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

As far as your argument for "Sin attack chains take longer to recharge", they also do more armor-ignoring damage for frontloading, and with the energy gain from Critical Strikes, as well as a Zealous weapon, you honestly think they'd give Assassins insta-recharge skills? No way. Which is why they have the recharges that they do.

Sins don't belong in GW, no more than Samurai or Ninja, or CatNinjaPirates or Dino from the Flintstones. Let's remove Sins, then Shadowsteps won't be a problem? Yes? Yes.

Thank you.

Youre a very bad sin.

WTS vampiric dagger tangs.

Lykan · Jan 28, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Remove aftercast.
Replace with: 75% chance of failure with 4 critical strikes or less.

FengShuiDove · Jan 28, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Why shouldn't there be a downside to Shadowstepping? All things have to be balanced somehow. By your argument, we should also remove the "takes double damage" aspect off of Frenzy. To be fair, we could disable Warrior attack skills for a short amount of time after Frenzy was triggered...

BUT, that would be grossly imbalanced...

It's simple, really: if a Sin's attack skills are disabled, it doesn't matter except for those few seconds of disabled time; as soon as the timer is up, they can fire off their chain. If a Warrior's attack skills are disabled, he/she gains no Adrenaline FOR THE DISABLED SKILLS, so even after the timer is up, they have to build full Adrenaline to fire off their chain.

It's not even close to balanced.

As far as your argument for "Sin attack chains take longer to recharge", they also do more armor-ignoring damage for frontloading, and with the energy gain from Critical Strikes, as well as a Zealous weapon, you honestly think they'd give Assassins insta-recharge skills? No way. Which is why they have the recharges that they do.

This is just... wrong... in so many places. The suggestion was to disable all NON-DAGGER attack skills. It's be like disabling Trampling Ox when Frenzy/Flail activates. Also, you do realize that .75s is nearly enough time to completely put Guardian up, and since most Sins aren't going to open with a KD/Disrupting Stab, Guardian/Shield Bash goes active before the first attack even lands? So you have a 20s recharge Elite Shadow Step (if we're using AoD as an example) that has no element of surprise or tactical movement. With aftercast or further disabling, it's a complete waste of a slot. They have plenty of time to move or react with anti-melee.

As soon as the "timer" on recharge is up they can fire off their chain? Yeah, against Guardian, Weapon of Warding, Aegis, sure, they can fire off their 4-5 skill chain and fail tragically, or wait until said prots go away and waste the shadow step itself.

At this point, Assassins are stronger in other categories anyway, strong enough to remove the penalties placed upon shadow steps. Palm Strike has given Sins an incredibly spammable chain that can be attempted with low recharge a number of times until any degree of success is had. MoI and Hidden Caltrops introduced a spammable prot-denial and snare capability for negating/overpowering protective skills and quick -or- eventual killing. The last thing left is the surprise Sin, with shadow steps that require skill and attention to protect against. It's the same level of difficulty with a different method of protting. Rather than trying to maintain continuous condition removal/anti-melee against PS and dangerous hex and condition removal against MoI/HC, you're intended to prot mid-chain against a shadow step build that has no other true form of shut-down except a KD 2-3 skills in the chain.

pingu666 · Jan 28, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

i dont pvp, but id like them to remove aftercast, or have some way for assassins to not have aftercast and warriers/dervs to have it, if that would help pvp balance, i dont think theres many uses for a warrior/derv to shadowstep in pve.

shadowstepping is a cool gameplay mechanic, its part of what a assassin in guildwars is ment tobe, some may say thats "broken", but it is part the reason de etre of the class

pingu666 · Jan 28, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

i dont pvp, but id like them to remove aftercast, or have some way for assassins to not have aftercast and warriers/dervs to have it, if that would help pvp balance, i dont think theres many uses for a warrior/derv to shadowstep in pve.

shadowstepping is a cool gameplay mechanic, its part of what a assassin in guildwars is ment tobe, some may say thats "broken", but it is part the reason de etre of the class

Spike Stritter · Jan 29, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Remove aftercast.
Replace with: 75% chance of failure with 4 critical strikes or less.

what?
this would barely do anything. if their crit. wasnt at 4 theyd just but 1 attribute down to make that 4+ or even 12 whatever 12 whaever 3+1 crit.

/signed

zwei2stein · Jan 29, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Make shaddowstep effect fail if character is under snaring effect.

GG

bungusmaximus · Jan 29, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Ermm, people, you don't wanna know how hard the pvp community whined to put an aftercast on shadowsteps :S. Now you actually wanna REVERSE that?

Face it, shadowsteps don't belong in GW pvp, not if you want to keep it fun. All melee has to deal with positioning, assassins too. Shadowsteps are bad game design, and now that sins are actually playable again due to the PS buff, you don't want to know what will happen if shadowsteps are playable again.

I guess noone here remembers the old Shadow Prison days ><. That sucked lemme tell you.

Syntonic · Jan 29, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I don't mind if they do this in PvE.

If you are complaining because of your JQ/FA/RA/AB experience, you should know better by now.

Yawgmoth · Jan 29, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Shadowsteps are stilll quite op, but the aftercast makes them somewhat balanced.
I find other ways of 'fixing' them, like basing them on Critical Strikes attr much worse than just the aftercast.

vote /no